How to Build Trust as a Speaker (and Avoid Looking Like a Fake Guru)

John: 00:00:00

What if I told you that the biggest threat to your credibility

2

: 00:00:03

as a speaker isn't a bad talk?

3

: 00:00:06

It's looking like one of those guys

leaning on a rented Lamborghini.

4

: 00:00:09

We all know the kinds of people I'm

talking about right before the pandemic,

5

: 00:00:12

they were everywhere being pictured

in private jets that they didn't own,

6

: 00:00:16

filming in mansions they didn't live

in, with promises of seven figures in

7

: 00:00:20

seven minutes if you just click buy

now, it looks flashy until it doesn't.

8

: 00:00:26

These grifters manufacture status.

9

: 00:00:29

With fake magazine features, vanity

Awards, inflated titles, and yes,

10

: 00:00:34

sometimes they do rake in millions before

the curtain falls, but here's the truth.

11

: 00:00:39

Audiences are catching on, and when

they see those same tricks in you, even

12

: 00:00:45

by accident, your credibility tanks.

13

: 00:00:48

So today we are drawing the line between

genuine credibility and manufactured

14

: 00:00:52

status, and before we finish up today,

I'll give you a three point simple

15

: 00:00:56

test you can use to check yourself

before you slide into status theater.

16

: 00:01:02

Welcome to Present Influence, the

show for speakers, coaches and

17

: 00:01:05

expert business owners who want

to deliver more impact, influence,

18

: 00:01:08

and inspiration in their message.

19

: 00:01:11

My name's John Ball, keynote

speaker, communication coach,

20

: 00:01:14

and your guide on this journey to

mastery level communication skills.

21

: 00:01:18

Now your credibility has mattered forever.

22

: 00:01:21

in Aristotle's great work on

rhetoric, which really is all about

23

: 00:01:24

influencing communication and speaking.

24

: 00:01:27

He recognized the

importance of credibility.

25

: 00:01:30

He called it, Ethos and it

really means the same thing.

26

: 00:01:33

It's your audience's ability

to trust in you, to trust the

27

: 00:01:37

messenger behind the message.

28

: 00:01:39

Do you have the status and the credibility

to be worth listening to and to trust

29

: 00:01:45

with the message that you are delivering?

30

: 00:01:48

Authority is also one of

Robert Cialdini's principles.

31

: 00:01:51

We are wired to trust in experts, but.

32

: 00:01:54

Trust is fragile.

33

: 00:01:56

And if people even get a

whiff of spin, you're done.

34

: 00:02:01

but real authority compounds

credibility, builds reputation

35

: 00:02:04

and reputations build re bookings.

36

: 00:02:08

You've probably seen examples and

you maybe even have been tempted by

37

: 00:02:12

them, of things like, uh, being on

coaches of: 2025

38

: 00:02:17

playlist or Vanity Magazine covers you.

39

: 00:02:20

Think of Forbes Magazine, where you can

pretty much pay to play there as well.

40

: 00:02:25

titling yourself as an international

speaker after appearing in

41

: 00:02:28

an unpaid panel in Toronto.

42

: 00:02:31

But why do people do it?

43

: 00:02:32

Well, these are shortcuts to success.

44

: 00:02:34

These are the things that look like

credibility without doing the work.

45

: 00:02:39

but when it fails, it really

fails and it does fail because

46

: 00:02:43

people are more savvy than we

often think audiences can smell.

47

: 00:02:48

Inauthenticity a mile off,

they can smell the theater.

48

: 00:02:51

So if they get a sense that you are

not the genuine article, you're more

49

: 00:02:55

show person than real person, they

are gonna be turned off by that.

50

: 00:03:00

Now, if you've tuned into my content

before, maybe you are a regular listener.

51

: 00:03:05

I appreciate you if you are, and if

you aren't, maybe you'd like to be,

52

: 00:03:08

But if you are, you'll know that I've

talked about ethics a lot and how

53

: 00:03:11

important I feel that this is because

the tools of influence and persuasion,

54

: 00:03:15

The tools of rhetoric, the tools of

being on a stage and delivering a

55

: 00:03:18

message, having any kind of public

platform, put you in a position where

56

: 00:03:24

you have authority, where people will

listen more to what you're saying

57

: 00:03:29

and those tools can be manipulated.

58

: 00:03:33

Now, manipulation in itself isn't

always a negative word because we

59

: 00:03:38

are always manipulating things.

60

: 00:03:40

We're always massaging things,

trying to get things to go our way.

61

: 00:03:43

Trying to convince people of

things that we believe in or

62

: 00:03:46

want them to believe in too.

63

: 00:03:48

And we could call that manipulation,

or we can call it persuasion.

64

: 00:03:52

Where manipulation becomes a problem

is where we are manipulating for

65

: 00:03:57

our own ends, for our own greater

good, rather than the greater

66

: 00:04:02

good in general for everybody.

67

: 00:04:05

When the end results are selfish end

results, the sense of manipulation

68

: 00:04:09

will more likely start to shine through

and people will get a sense of feeling

69

: 00:04:13

used or things feeling transactional

rather than relationship based.

70

: 00:04:19

Having ethics isn't

just about that though.

71

: 00:04:21

It's also about living with yourself,

being able to be comfortable with who

72

: 00:04:27

you are and the decisions that you

make, and the actions that you thereby

73

: 00:04:31

take because, if you are doing things

that are outside of your own personal

74

: 00:04:37

integrity, then you are living outside of

your own ethical values and that has the

75

: 00:04:41

potential to put you on a downward spiral

to do more of those things because your

76

: 00:04:47

personal identity, your self image lowers.

77

: 00:04:50

You start to think of yourself

as being less than a good person.

78

: 00:04:53

You start to recognize, well, I

want to be this good person, but

79

: 00:04:56

I do all these things that I know

aren't good, aren't good for me,

80

: 00:04:59

don't feel good for other people.

81

: 00:05:01

We all want to be the hero of our own

story, and we may end up doing a lot of

82

: 00:05:04

mental gymnastics and even manipulation

in order to be able to give ourselves

83

: 00:05:10

that illusion of peace of mind.

84

: 00:05:12

the real peace of mind, the real

ability to sleep with a clean conscience

85

: 00:05:16

only really comes when we are living

in our integrity, living within

86

: 00:05:21

the values and ethics and having

a good life, being a good person.

87

: 00:05:26

Now, I don't personally

ascribe to any religious ideals

88

: 00:05:29

about what a good person is.

89

: 00:05:31

I think we all have a pretty good

sense of what good morals are, what

90

: 00:05:34

good values are, and that hurting

other people is not good values and

91

: 00:05:39

doing things for the greater good

and in service to other people,

92

: 00:05:43

probably more along the lines of good

values and also looking after ourselves

93

: 00:05:46

as well, but not looking after ourselves

to the detriment of other people.

94

: 00:05:51

There are certain things that can

start to give some signals and

95

: 00:05:54

clues as to where manipulative use

of authority might be occurring.

96

: 00:05:59

Ethical authority signals are also

easy to come by as and they can

97

: 00:06:03

build trust faster than anything.

98

: 00:06:04

They build a sense of confidence and

security in a person much more than

99

: 00:06:09

the flashy image and the big I am

statements that we will often hear.

100

: 00:06:15

Some people will be fooled by those,

but majority of people probably won't.

101

: 00:06:19

Things like earned testimonials, actual

case studies of people you've worked with

102

: 00:06:24

and experiences you've had, sharing your

journey, including the scars, including

103

: 00:06:29

the things that haven't gone well.

104

: 00:06:31

Being vulnerable to the point of not

needing to people to think that you are

105

: 00:06:35

perfect in every way, shape, or form

of never made any mistakes, always gone

106

: 00:06:39

wrong or you can trust me, I don't ever

make mistakes, and that would actually

107

: 00:06:43

be more of a reason to not trust.

108

: 00:06:46

The signals of manipulation of

negative manipulation really

109

: 00:06:50

are things like fake scarcity.

110

: 00:06:52

It could be countdowns that never

end, deadlines, that never really get

111

: 00:06:56

abided by borrowed credibility might

be posing with celebrities at events

112

: 00:07:01

and having your picture taken and

plastering those all over your website

113

: 00:07:05

to borrow off their credibility, and

they may have no idea who you are.

114

: 00:07:10

Inflated claims the world's

number one and so on.

115

: 00:07:14

But here's the thing, extraordinary

claims do require extraordinary

116

: 00:07:18

evidence, so question everything.

117

: 00:07:21

Check people out.

118

: 00:07:22

Don't take people at their word.

119

: 00:07:24

One of the biggest reasons why people

can be so easily deceived can be

120

: 00:07:28

the passion and the confidence that

people can manipulatively, inject

121

: 00:07:34

into their presentations and stories.

122

: 00:07:37

Stories are incredibly influential.

123

: 00:07:41

Especially if they really pull us in and

maybe make us laugh at certain points and

124

: 00:07:45

take us on a bit of emotional journey.

125

: 00:07:47

Anecdotal evidence and stories, and

often people saying things that may

126

: 00:07:53

not actually be a hundred percent

true will often lead to certain people

127

: 00:07:57

Taking them at face value and thinking,

oh, okay, I accept that because they

128

: 00:08:02

seem genuine, because I'm convinced

by their story I've bought in.

129

: 00:08:07

I felt some emotional

connection here as well.

130

: 00:08:11

And so these things can be used

to work for us and they can

131

: 00:08:14

be used to work against us.

132

: 00:08:16

The tools of authority have

no morality themselves.

133

: 00:08:20

They can be used for good or for bad.

134

: 00:08:22

Same as a hammer can be

used to build or destroy.

135

: 00:08:26

Now, I said at the start of this

episode that I would give you a three

136

: 00:08:29

point credibility test, and this is

a test to do on yourself for every

137

: 00:08:33

point of authority signal, so for

your testimonials, your case studies,

138

: 00:08:37

anything else that's kind of your

stories especially important for that.

139

: 00:08:41

Let me share with you

just before we do this.

140

: 00:08:43

When I first started working in

the personal development industry,

141

: 00:08:47

stories were a really important thing

and one story particularly that I

142

: 00:08:52

started to become very aware of was

a very similar story from a number

143

: 00:08:57

of speakers about how at one point

in their life, they were broke, kind

144

: 00:09:01

of living in the parents' basement,

145

: 00:09:03

Having to heat water to wash in off

of a gas heater, maybe having to live

146

: 00:09:08

off pot noodles and pasta because they

couldn't afford much else, and, uh, being

147

: 00:09:12

completely broke and doing the things that

someone who's completely broke would do.

148

: 00:09:16

And then at some point there's this moment

of transformation, realization, and a life

149

: 00:09:20

change changed and they headed on this

new track towards success and wealth and

150

: 00:09:25

profitability and all those good things.

151

: 00:09:28

Now these stories will be so

similar that I wondered who came

152

: 00:09:31

up with the story first, but now I

think that was the wrong question.

153

: 00:09:35

the question that I was asking

wasn't really skeptical enough?

154

: 00:09:38

the better question to have asked would've

been, why is this story being told in this

155

: 00:09:43

way by so many different people to the

point where you might think, all right,

156

: 00:09:48

I wonder whose story this actually is.

157

: 00:09:51

So now I actually doubt that it was

anyone's genuine story and experience

158

: 00:09:56

because I think the whole structure

of the story was more the point.

159

: 00:10:00

It doesn't matter who came up with it,

there were various stories being used

160

: 00:10:04

because of the structure and because of

what they represented and because of their

161

: 00:10:08

effectiveness with particular audiences.

162

: 00:10:10

And this is something that's worth looking

into, like the different kinds of stories

163

: 00:10:14

that influence and affect people in

particular situations, and certainly the

164

: 00:10:20

ones that paste the experience of audience

who may be like, well, maybe even to have

165

: 00:10:25

the state of, they start the story in an

even worse position probably than most

166

: 00:10:30

of the people who are in the audience

who might have some kind of financial

167

: 00:10:33

struggle and they end up in the place

where the audience really wants to get to.

168

: 00:10:38

So the audience has that mini journey

with them from being in failure

169

: 00:10:43

worse than they are, to being in

success greater than they are.

170

: 00:10:47

I think, well, if they can go

from worse than I am to greater

171

: 00:10:49

than I am, I can do that too.

172

: 00:10:52

And that really was the

whole point of that story.

173

: 00:10:54

And there are many other stories

that similarly go along that line.

174

: 00:10:57

So.

175

: 00:10:58

I say they're not parableistic stories

as such, but the, the message or

176

: 00:11:02

the, the theme of the story is the

intention of it is really important.

177

: 00:11:05

And that's always a question

that's worth asking yourself.

178

: 00:11:07

When you hear stories, when

you hear someone speaking,

179

: 00:11:10

what's the intention here?

180

: 00:11:12

What is the speaker trying to get over?

181

: 00:11:14

Is this really about what they're saying

or is there something else at work here?

182

: 00:11:18

I warn you.

183

: 00:11:19

I warn you, when you do this, if you

keep this thing in your head of always

184

: 00:11:23

asking, what's the point of this?

185

: 00:11:24

What's the intention here?

186

: 00:11:27

I recommend switching that off when you're

watching TV or films because it will ruin

187

: 00:11:31

every TV show and film you ever watch.

188

: 00:11:34

If you start asking yourself,

what's the intention here?

189

: 00:11:37

What's this leading up to?

190

: 00:11:38

Why are they doing this?

191

: 00:11:39

Why is that music playing?

192

: 00:11:41

Why are we seeing this

particular scene on screen?

193

: 00:11:43

What's that setting up?

194

: 00:11:44

It will ruin the whole thing for

you because you will start to figure

195

: 00:11:47

out the the signals of what's coming

next or what's being set up or the

196

: 00:11:52

emotion that is intended to be evoked.

197

: 00:11:56

These are the kinds of signals

that you will pick up on.

198

: 00:11:59

So when it comes to a credibility test,

we want you to be able to pick up on

199

: 00:12:03

authority signals for yourself as well.

200

: 00:12:05

So when it comes to things like

your testimonials, your case

201

: 00:12:09

studies, stories about yourself

and your experience, achievements,

202

: 00:12:14

especially statements of achievement

and expertise, are they earned?

203

: 00:12:17

Did you actually achieve it or are

you just implying that you did?

204

: 00:12:23

Are they relevant?

205

: 00:12:24

Does it really matter to the

audience that you're trying to reach?

206

: 00:12:26

Or is it just a status grab?

207

: 00:12:29

Are they verifiable?

208

: 00:12:31

Could someone check out the claim

and see if it holds up or not?

209

: 00:12:36

Now, if it fails even one of

these, it's manufactured status.

210

: 00:12:41

It's trying to make yourself

look more ahead of the game

211

: 00:12:44

than you probably really are.

212

: 00:12:46

my intention here is not

to shame you with this.

213

: 00:12:49

Don't shame yourself because of this,

but just know that these are not

214

: 00:12:53

authentic claims that are being set up.

215

: 00:12:56

This is a, a massaging or exaggeration

of reality of truth in order to

216

: 00:13:03

give a sense of personal status.

217

: 00:13:06

Now, this status status is gonna have

far more value to you when you know

218

: 00:13:10

that it's real and that it's genuine,

but it don't always sound great when

219

: 00:13:15

you're speaking to an audience who

want an expert in front of them.

220

: 00:13:19

Or you have this imagination that

maybe the imposter syndrome's

221

: 00:13:22

kicking in and you're thinking,

222

: 00:13:24

I'm not enough of an expert just

yet, but let me show you this.

223

: 00:13:28

Credibility can come from all sorts

of spaces and all sorts of places,

224

: 00:13:32

and many of the people that I've

worked with as clients over the years

225

: 00:13:35

have discovered this for themselves.

226

: 00:13:37

I would say myself included to

some degree, because when I started

227

: 00:13:41

this podcast, I was not an expert

in influence and persuasion.

228

: 00:13:46

I was just very, very interested in it.

229

: 00:13:49

It's a passion subject for me.

230

: 00:13:50

The presentation skills, the

influence and persuasion.

231

: 00:13:53

I was no expert even five years ago.

232

: 00:13:56

I had a healthy interest.

233

: 00:13:57

There was lots of things that I knew that

I knew that I did not have expert status.

234

: 00:14:02

I did not have qualification.

235

: 00:14:05

I did not have the ethos really to be

able to say, I am an expert in this topic.

236

: 00:14:11

I was just someone who had interest and

curiosity and a desire to know more.

237

: 00:14:16

As you can imagine, in five years

of talking to experts and doing

238

: 00:14:21

my own education and research

and development, that I have

239

: 00:14:25

become more of an expert in that.

240

: 00:14:28

I still would not call myself a

completely qualified expert because

241

: 00:14:32

who really can say that they know

everything that there is to know.

242

: 00:14:36

You know, I'm sure there are things

even in Robert Cialdini doesn't know

243

: 00:14:40

about influence and persuasion or

hasn't really studied or looked into.

244

: 00:14:44

No one has the full picture, but

we all can have levels of expertise

245

: 00:14:49

and we can be honest to that.

246

: 00:14:50

So I can make the claim that after

nearly six years now of doing a podcast

247

: 00:14:56

that is about influence and persuasion

and presentation skills, that I have

248

: 00:15:00

some level of expertise from that.

249

: 00:15:03

From a time spent talking with

experts in these topics To my

250

: 00:15:06

own research and development, and

that's not a fake claim and it still

251

: 00:15:11

has a good amount of credibility.

252

: 00:15:13

Sometimes credibility can just

be a deep passion for a subject,

253

: 00:15:17

something you really care about.

254

: 00:15:18

You might want to get up on stage

and talk about the environment.

255

: 00:15:21

Doesn't mean you have to be

a, an environmental scientist.

256

: 00:15:25

It.

257

: 00:15:25

It can just be that you have a real

passion for change and you have enough

258

: 00:15:29

knowledge to be able to talk and

deliver a passionate change message.

259

: 00:15:34

So this is really where

ethos can come from.

260

: 00:15:37

A credibility can come

from, without having to step

261

: 00:15:40

outside of your authenticity.

262

: 00:15:43

Now.

263

: 00:15:44

There are times where we might just

gloss over the truth in order to make

264

: 00:15:47

things sound better than they really are.

265

: 00:15:48

We probably do it mostly with

our cvs, our resumes, when we're

266

: 00:15:52

sending those off, we want to give

the best impression of ourselves.

267

: 00:15:56

but sometimes we can say, oh,

I'm, I'm an award-winning speaker.

268

: 00:15:59

Well, maybe the award you won was

best speaker at your Toastmasters

269

: 00:16:02

club or, uh, best table topics.

270

: 00:16:05

Nothing really major, but you know.

271

: 00:16:07

Did you win an award?

272

: 00:16:08

Sure.

273

: 00:16:08

You did.

274

: 00:16:09

Did you win it for speaking?

275

: 00:16:10

Yeah.

276

: 00:16:10

Would anyone care about that award?

277

: 00:16:13

Other than yourself or your local

club, probably not that much.

278

: 00:16:16

So it would be a definite

exaggeration of that truth.

279

: 00:16:20

So I think if you win awards, even

if they are local awards, if you're

280

: 00:16:23

putting yourself out there in the world,

those things probably mean a bit more.

281

: 00:16:28

If you've won competitions, great.

282

: 00:16:29

That can be credibility and.

283

: 00:16:32

I would say, you know, things like,

um, things like club memberships don't

284

: 00:16:36

always give you a, i, I think some saying

something like, I've been a member of

285

: 00:16:39

Toastmasters for five years or 10 years

doesn't really tell us anything other than

286

: 00:16:43

that you've had membership for that time

and maybe gone to some of the meetings,

287

: 00:16:46

but telling us that you've achieved

certain rankings within that might mean

288

: 00:16:50

a bit more and it might have a bit more

depth or that you've won competitions

289

: 00:16:54

in the world championship of speaking,

or maybe even won the world championship

290

: 00:16:58

of speaking with Toastmasters.

291

: 00:16:59

That would definitely give you a higher

level of credibility that can come

292

: 00:17:03

from that, but, you have to make these

judgements calls for yourself and be real

293

: 00:17:07

about, are you stretching the truth a

little bit too much here to inflate your

294

: 00:17:13

ego or to look like more of an expert.

295

: 00:17:15

Is there a version of the truth

that would still do that without

296

: 00:17:18

moving too much outside of your

integrity or your own personal ethics?

297

: 00:17:23

Maybe there is, and if there is,

I recommend you try and find it.

298

: 00:17:26

And if you can't find it, maybe try

and find some of those things that

299

: 00:17:29

you would like to be able to claim

as status for yourself and move

300

: 00:17:33

towards making them reality so that

you don't have to pretend anymore.

301

: 00:17:38

The reality is this, you don't need

smoker mirrors to build influence.

302

: 00:17:41

Just imagine stepping off a stage, not

with applause out of politeness, but

303

: 00:17:45

the people quoting your words, sharing

your stories, reaching out because they

304

: 00:17:49

trust you, not your rented Ferrari.

305

: 00:17:53

Speakers like Joel Binge, Lucille Oai.

306

: 00:17:56

Recent guests on this show and so many

others I've interviewed, they prove that

307

: 00:18:01

speakers who win long-term are the ones

who build credibility the slow way through

308

: 00:18:05

clarity, connection, and consistency.

309

: 00:18:08

So here's your challenge.

310

: 00:18:10

Audit your credibility signals this week.

311

: 00:18:12

Ask yourself, is it earned?

312

: 00:18:14

Is it relevant?

313

: 00:18:15

Is it verifiable?

314

: 00:18:17

And drop one example in the comments

of a credibility marker that you are

315

: 00:18:22

proud of, because the clearer your

credibility, the bigger your impact.

316

: 00:18:26

See you next time.